I don’t know if this Connecticut story has made national news – Last night as I was watching a movie with my daughter, an Amber Alert was issued and flashed across the screen for quite a while. The situation, apparently, was dire. Sadly, there was a relatively quick end to the search… and not the ending people were praying for. See story HERE… for more indepth details.
In short, A 47 year old grandmother with a history of mental illness, bipolar disorder, etc.etc. picked her two grandchildren up from day care, boys ages 2 years and 6 months… and brought them to a remote area where she shot them both dead and then took her own life.
*sigh*
Two things come to mind…
Why is a woman with a history of mental illness in possession of a gun? Was she issued a permit? Did anyone do a backround check that would include history of mental illness before giving her that permit? I’m sorry, but I don’t care if that would violate her right to medical privacy. It should be mandatory. Perhaps it was the gun of a family member. Well, time to wake the fuck up. If you’ve got a member of your family who has a history of mental illness… ANY mental illness, whether it’s depression, severe anxiety, bipolar disorder, autism, etc. etc. etc.. there should not be guns in any location that they can have access.
Case in point – Sandy Hook. What was that mother thinking?!.. she knew her son was autistic and suffered depression and did not get along with his peers. So.. take him to a gun range and teach him how to use assault weapons? It’s the reason I don’t feel sorry for her tragic demise. It was probably a blessing, because I don’t know how she could have lived with the knowledge that her son had done such hideous harm to all those innocent children with the gun she had taught him to use.
Why is a woman with a history of mental illness allowed to pick two very young grandchildren up from daycare in the first place?
My thoughts this morning are with the mother who will have to find a way to go on without her two precious sons, knowing they died at the hands of her own mother.
MENTAL ILLNESS needs to be addressed even more vigorously than gun control in my opinion. It’s the mentally ill that are doing the most harm. I don’t mean this as an assault on those who are afflicted, they didn’t ask for their illness any more than a cancer patient wants their disease. I, too have suffered from anxiety issues. This nation needs the same consideration for the mentally ill, we need facilities that are equipped to properly treat these people, we need treatment that is affordable to all, we need to humanely house those who can’t live on their own safely. It’s for their safety as well as the rest of the population.
A woman with bipolar issues had a problem with someone blaming the bipolar conditon on this tragedy. She said she is bipolar and she would never commit those crimes. Well, SHE apparently has her illness under control, but there are no guaranties. I don’t think she should ever possess a gun given her diagnosis.
Another sad day in Connecticut, and we don’t have to ask WHY, in my opinion. That’s not the question. WHEN… is more appropriate. When will we wake up?
If you have a different opinion on this subject, I welcome your viewpoint in the comments section. I only ask that you keep it respectful.
A very dreary, rainy, windy, grey day, this is…. in more ways than one.
We have all but abandoned the mentally ill in our country. We have had a few murders committed in our county by mentally ill the past few years. Family members knew of their illness but had nowhere to turn when the individual chose not to take their meds. I believe my stepson is gone today because of a diagnosis requiring meds that he would not take. It was not a gun-related incident. But being an ex-Marine, he could easily have purchased one. Tragedies occur, but we need to fill the holes that people are falling through or being allowed to step through with ease.
I agree. I don't know why anyone needs an assault rifle in the first place. And we have legislated ourselves out of being able to help those who truly have a mental disorder and refuse help…families are helpless.
Karen, I believe there's a problem with how we treat, or rather, don't treat the mentally ill. I don't believe there's a gun problem any more than I believe there's a vehicle problem because drunk drivers get behind the wheel and kill people while driving. Like you, I believe a background check should be mandatory and if there's a problem with mental illness…NO gun permit, NO gun. Do we take it further and say, NO car because that could be used as a weapon?
I truly don't know but the question, to my mind, is a good one. I think Mr. Raegan was one of our finer Presidents but he did a huge disservice to the mentally ill when he opened the gates and released them from care.
As an aside, just because a woman can birth a child, doesn't make her a mother, imo. Same with a man and being a father.
There is a problem with lack of personal responsibility in this country. Media teaches anyone daft enough to watch, if a crime is committed, there are loopholes. The Good Book says, "the wicked flourish because justice is slow in coming." I'm in favor of an arrest to trial to sentencing in six weeks and, in case of jail time, let prisoners do hard labor. It doesn't kill you or I and they should enjoy the same privilege of hard work.
To those who say the system can't work that fast or that way, I say, "screw the system; make it work."
I can think of two reasons folks need an assault rifle. One, the Second Amendment and two, where we live there's a huge problem with predators…coyotes, coydogs, etc. It's much easier and safer to kill a running coyote with a rapid fire rifle than a shotgun or single shot rifle. Farmers routinely lose their lambs and calves to coyotes and killing coyotes by shooting them with a rapid fire weapon is far more humane than poison or snares.
I know, Karen. Just horrific. I just don't understand why there is ANY controversy about guns. It's a NO brainer. I agree with you. The mental illness thing is a bit stickier in that each person is often in control of their own mental health and how much intervention is "proper" and not abused. For example – who can commit someone and under what criteria?
It's just an awful thing and as the healthcare system is broken and the government is broken, it feels very hopeless to me and makes me want to gather my flock and go live somewhere with the least exposure to any of this. Unfortunately, our children grow up and leave our "safe" world. I don't know what the answer is and more scary than that? The powers that be don't have the answers either and just end up fighting constantly about it and make no progress…big government? Little government? I don't know! I don't know! I don't know…
Mmmmmmhhhhmmmm. What does it say about our country's current state of affairs that a (47?) grandmother killing her grandchildren does not make national news? Tragic.
Some very thoughtful comments and a sad report. I am a veteran and work closely in my present job with the armed forces overseas- just a qualifier.
I don’t believe this is an argument or fight over our right as citizens of the United States to own fire arms- I will get back to this point later.
We are a country divided at its core. We fight over a wide spectrum of topics that we believe to be the nail in the coffin of the “American way of life” Abortion, gay marriage, taxes, immigration, voting rights, religion, science… We are also a country that is more plugged in and connected to “information” than any other society in the history of this world. But we are also a sound bite nation. We “like” on FB the latest blurb for or against the topic of the day. What we lack is discourse. We lack challenging our own Ideas about the way the world works and how we have come to believe what we believe.
I would be willing to wager that the dividing line between gun rights and gun control lays some ware between Fox News and MSNBC. Is this because we gravitate to the truth? Or is this because we feel most comfortable when our own biases are supported- psychologists have a lot to say about this topic, I won’t tell you what you surely suspect the answer to be.
In a land were liberty reigns I am continually baffled by the conflict between my right and the rights of other. Just because I believe something to be true and real does not mean other people hold, or are comfortable with, the same point of view. I struggle with what the second amendment should mean to other people- I know what it means to me. Other people struggle, equally, with weather same sex couples should have the same rights as traditional couples- I don’t, and of course they should. The point is, it is profoundly difficult to see the world from someone else’s point of view. But this is our task. If we expect other people to allow us or freedoms we must allow them there’s- all within reason of course. And it is at this intersection, where your rights collide with mine that the discussion, the real debate, lives.
In one of Ronald Reagan’s speeches about guns- I believe it was after Brady was shot, President Reagan said that he supported the 2nd amendment. But he went on to say that he didn’t believe that the second amendment gave individuals the right to own an AK-47. He supported the 2nd amendment and regulation- a sensible approach.
In 1991, Ronald Reagan said at a ceremony at George Washington University: “I want to tell all of you here today something that I’m not sure you know. You do know that I’m a member of the NRA. My position on right to bear arms is well known. But I want you to know something else. And I’m going to say it in clear unmistakable language. I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it.”
The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act was passed in 1993. This law created a system for background checks of licensed gun buyers, which was maintained by the FBI.
Although this national system prevented convicted criminals and potentially violent people from purchasing handguns, a loophole existed. The 1993 act did not cover private sales from one individual to another. In 1993, 57% of people surveyed by the Pew Research Center said that controlling gun ownership was more important than protecting gun rights; in 2012, the percentage went down to 47%.
In 2004, President George W. Bush said, “I did think we ought to extend the assault weapons ban, and was told the fact that the bill was never going to move, because Republicans and Democrats were against the assault weapon ban, people of both parties. I believe law-abiding citizens ought to be able to own a gun. I believe in background checks at gun shows or anywhere to make sure that guns don’t get in the hands of people that shouldn’t have them.”
Reasonable? Yes.
But what I find more profound is that Reagan chose to mention an AK-47 and not an M-16 A1. It’s at this point that I may lose some of you. I believe that at is core- at the very heart of this argument is not guns, gay rights, taxes… but fear. I mentioned Fox News and MSNBC earlier and I mention them because I believe that it is information like what these organizations give us and in the way that they present it that is THE CAUSE of our dysfunction. Almost all of us are reasonable people. We hold the same values.
Reagan didn’t choose to mention an M16 because he didn’t want to piss of a special interest group and loose support. Fox and MSNBC don’t have balanced discussions because they don’t want to loose viewers. We have become there special interest groups. Their goal is to make a profit, NOT to inform. Subsequently there mission is to guaranty market share by hardening the lines of division that naturally occur in a diverse society. I now this sounds somewhat wacky. But ask yourself why we have become so divided and calcitrant in our beliefs. I would venture to say that most Germans in the late 20’s and early 30’s were reasonable people- look what happened to them. We must begin to question why we have become the way we are.
I am going to end with a bit of a fizzle. We need to start questioning the information we are consuming. We need to demand the truth and the long view. We need to stop consuming the information ages version of junk food. It will make us sick- it already has. If we can begin to do that I believe the chasm that divides us will begin to look like a fisher- the proverbial crack in the Liberty Bell. And that is the fight we must wage.
Who owns you?
Karen – what a horrific story… I feel deeply for the mother of those two young boys.
I agree with your commenters who have said it better than I could.
Can I just tell you all that Andrew is my cousin and right at this moment I am just so very proud of this guy? Enough said. He's gonna blush.
The mentally ill and guns do not mix. We need to deal with both – to support our rights WITH control and give help to the person who needs help.
Way to go Andrew. He nailed it. He summed up perfectly what is wrong with the news networks in the USA. Well said!
I have to agree with most of the comments; i.e. the mentally ill are the very last people on earth to get proper care-it makes no difference how much money they have, what kind of insurance, etc. They are and have always been the "forgotten".
As far as a person qualifying for a permit; it's my belief that "anyone" who kills another is mentally ill.
Well, Andrew! A compelling and insightful treatise! And such terrible news, Karen. Again. I hadn't heard anything about it…Dismantling the mental health care in this country was certainly a mistake. I used to work at Fairfield Hills Hosp. which was in Newtown, CT. It no longer exists as a mental hospital. In the late 70s we were discharging patients to nursing homes because the handwriting (money issue) was on the wall…nursing homes that were ill equipped to handle our patients. Some patients had been there most of their lives (which of course is another issue all together). It was traumatic and sad. Anyway…this is such awful news. I am disheartened. Just as I was disheartened when I heard that after Sandy Hook there were long lines to buy guns. That was the response to killing babies??! unbelievable. sad. And why does the right of some to own these weapons trump those children's right to life? I can't figure this out.
Yes, I saw the news and this awful story. I feel for all involved. As a grandmother I can't even imagine doing something like that to my grandchildren. How ill that woman must have been. I know that her family was aware of her illness, but to what degree? Did anyone go to the doctor with her? Did her family show a real interest in her and her illness? I, as a Victims Advocate for 6 years, came across a family that had called the police on their mother and mother in law. They just wanted her to leave their house. They couldn't deal with her and didn't want to. After sitting and listening to both sides of the story, I asked the family of this woman to come outside with me. I said to them, do you realize your mother is mentally ill? That it's an illness just like heart disease or diabetes. I asked them do you realize that? They just kinda shuffled their feet. I then came a little unglued and told them that they are her family and their job was to take care of her and help her get the medicine she needs and support she needs. I was so ashamed of them.
No she shouldn't have had a gun. But did her family realize how sick she was, did they know she had a gun? They should have taken it away.
I am by no means a pro gun advocate but this woman would have kill her grandchildren some other way if the desire was there. A few years ago an aunt here in Massachusetts striped herself naked and ran across the intestate with her little niece and nephew. All of them were struck and killed. It was investigated and found to be a suicide/murder. She struggled with mental illness also. The point, I think is it is more about mental illness than the weapon they choose to use. Anyway you look at it it is a tragedy.
Terrible news k ! Great comment Andrew ! It just seems like at times the hole world has gone crazy !
We had a similar tragedy nearby last year. A grandmother picked up her 7 yr. old granddaughter from parochial school, took her home, shot her and burned the house down. Seems she had been a nurse in the military and had suffered many losses. She just lost her mind, but I just don't understand how someone can kill like that. We have so many homeless people living on the streets because the mentally ill have no place to live. Of course when there were mental institutions, people complained that it was wrong to "lock them up" even if it was for their own good and the good of the community. Lots of good discussion here!
V
OMG- I am just sick to my soul reading this. There is no understanding of this at all…….I will never understand why these things are allowed to happen- xo Diana
Andrew Peoples for President!!!
I felt sick hearing the news Karen. The comments above mine say it better than I can. Sad day indeed.
Karen – I just fell in huge internet crush with your cousin. Andrew is SPOT ON. We need to go deep.
I have found, nearly every time, when I dig for the story behind the story, a light is turned on. Well duh, but you know what I mean.
Even with my ADD I am sick of our sound bite world.
I had not heard this story. 🙁
totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a terrible heart break for that whole family. I believe that the mentally ill grandmother would have found another way to end the lives of those little boys if she didn't have a gun. I agree with background checks and helping people who have mental and emotional problems. I am not a gun owner but I do want the right to own one if I choose.
I also agree with Andrew his points were all valid.
Kelly